So, I got a response awhile ago from the Boy Scouts of America’s National Office about my Cubscout Knot email that I sent them. I also posted this question in a Linkedin Forum and got a lot great feedback/history as to why this is happening. It’s all very good. Main thing is that my voice was heard at National and explained in great terms. I know that there are reasons behind this and it’s good that a panel of Scouter’s thought about it. Here is the reply from National.
I am not identifying the person who sent it, since I don’t want to have his inbox flooded
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The awards committee took a look at all of the awards in the BSA. There was nearly a year of discussion (and a lot of angst) over this. I am a Cub Scouter and served in the Cub Scout division in the early days of the knots, but the conversation made sense even to me. Let me share some of the thoughts. Not in an attempt to convince you, but to give you some of the key thoughts that led to the decision by our committees. And keep in mind, the awards are not going away, just the separate knots.
• The Scouter’s Key is one of the oldest and most prestigious adult training/performance awards in the BSA. For the last 25 years Cubmasters have been the only top leaders excluded from earning that award and knot. It was felt that they should.
• There are more den leaders than any position other than unit committee, the den leader knot is one of the oldest knots, and arguably, along with Scoutmasters, den leaders are the most important position in Scouting. So that knot was retained. However, except in councils with a large military presence, active den leaders and pack committee members told us that the knots are not an incentive. The certificate however and public recognition are! (Many of the Den Leader and Cub Scouter knots are “earned” by former Cub Scout leaders, not current leaders.)
• There are some (including me), but only a few Cubmasters become Scoutmasters. While the majority of Tiger Cub den leaders do serve as Wolf and Bear den leaders, a minority of Cub Scout den leaders become Webelos den leaders. Most people will only earn one Scouter’s Key and one Den Leader Award.
• Very few Cub Scouter and Pack Trainer knots are awarded each year.
• The awards and uniform committee recommends that Scouters wear, at the most, two or three rows of knots. They have not formally restricted it to that because there is a group to whom knots are important. But for those that do follow that recommendation, with the use of devices they can wear the recognition for more earned awards. In reality most Scouters do not wear the devices. They are there for the group that wants to.
• The decision was made that Scouters that have earned the Cub Scouting knots in the past will continue to be able to wear them. It will be moving forward that the old knots will not be presented for those awards.
I am not sure if you have seen my latest posting about this topic as the new info is now posted.
http://scouteradam.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/adult-training-key-knots-2012/
And yes, during any training, knots need to be talked about. However, in the case of Cubscout’s most of that training is online and not mentioned there. Not every Pack sends their people to Face to Face training or is not able to due to geographical based issues. Some Units are remote from where training is held.
True Adam on where the Knots Award info comes out which is Roundtables and Pow-Wows. Needs to comes out AT training levels whether it be online or at in person training sessions. I found online a really nice excel record keeper that I’m planning to revise a bit this summer to send off to our District Training Chair that will hopefully help spread the word/awareness of knots at the ‘training’ level along with those training announcing flyers.
I took a look at the Scouting.org changes at http://scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx. The progress record sheets titles themselves are too wordy and not consist when one pulls them up from the linkages listed under ‘Training Awards’ except for Venturing which uses ‘Venturing Training Award’. The units should always be listed first in titles as people scan info quickly for their units. (We’ve learned the habit that Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting info comes out together so we have fine tuned our information gathering and listening skills to seek ‘unit’ first to see if it pertains to us.) The unit type should be first for ALL of them and not just in Venturing. By this I mean the record sheet themselves should use ‘Cub Scouting Training Award’ instead of their current lengthy version of ‘Scouter’s Training Award for Cub Scouting’. The Keys section follows the ol’ KISS rule of ‘Keep it SUPER Simple’ with their titles only being two words for each unit type… *winka
One drawback is the Scouting.org box needs a second linkage for redirection using their title on that page, Training Awards for Adult Leaders in Units, so one can see ALL the Knots Awards Scouting offers since I’m sure many will bookmark that page for future reference. I really LOVE the new box format on that page, http://scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx
Happy 4th!!!
Thanks for the note. Glad that you got your knots in the end. One Den Leader tracked his own accomplishments. Though I did it as well. He ended up earning the Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader and Cubscouter Knots. I tracked others in the Pack. Which lead to my then Tiger Den Leader to get his knot. Main reason people have not been getting the knots is they do not go to Roundtable or Pow-wow. This is after explaining what is needed several times.
Also, I don’t think getting a parent to track adult training is where it’s at. We do not have a Pack Trainer (most Packs don’t) so, it’s up to the person who wants it or someone on the committee.
Yes, Packs generally do not know about the Knots. That’s because they don’t get out and see that they can. They only work on getting the boys their rank and awards. Which is our primary focus, overall. It’s not Adult Scouting. My point is, if a Den Leader or others on the Committee gets more training or reads up on Scouting in general for their position, they will see that these knots exist.
Within my Pack, those who are on staff are there for the boys and are not concerned about Knots.
The reason current Den Leaders don’t earn knots is they are newbies themselves working with so much in trying to put out a good program for their Scouts in their Den and Pack. (I didn’t get mine until the second time around which was after my son got his Eagle. Loved Scouting too much to leave… *laughing)
Units really should think about having a parent on the side keeping track of ‘Knot’ awards of what’s been covered for those Den Leaders. Really should be a different person than the Pack Trainer Chair… *winka